„You cannot transcend what you do not know. To go beyond yourself, you must know yourself.“ – Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
I recently discovered the posting from MonkMojo called The Tony Robbins vs Eckhart Tolle Debate in which he shows Tony Robbins shouting „Feel my Personal Power“ opposed to Eckhart Tolle answering calmly with „I am rubber and you are glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you“ …
While this is kinda funny, it brings a typical debate to the surface: Do we become happy by fulfilling our deepest dreams and by being the best version of us we can? Or do we just have to awaken to our true self and see that all craving is ego-land and won’t make us happy in the end? It’s the debate between Mind-based Power vs. Spiritual Power, between success-oriented doing vs. calm but conscious being. In the example above: Anthony Robbins standing for the former while Eckhart Tolle is representing the latter. It is the debate between an educated and maybe ego-influenced mind and the self-less spirit. At least, it seems so on the surface.
The relationship between mind and spirit
Anthony Robbins as well as Eckhart Tolle had both a good influence on me. Tony developed my energy-level, my goal-achieving ability and my time-management. Eckhart triggered awakening experiences in me. With his unique ability to talk about something that cannot be explained, only experienced, he opened up a whole new perspective on life for me (See my very personal review of The Power Of Now or read the first chapter of The Power of Now).
When I experienced this shift in consciousness, with the blissful state and the quiet mind along came also the seemingly conflict between mind and spirit. On the Eckhart Tolle Community-Board I discussed the topic of Spirituality and Drive to large extent. The issue for me was, if all we need to do is being in the Now and awakening to our true essence and see that there are no problems and we are already 100% complete, then where the heck do I get my motivation from? ;)
The passion to create and to enjoy life, to be of service to others and to grow does not go away. It gets another, very clear and improved reference point. By silencing the mind and raising awareness, I finally became able to use the mind more efficiently. I still want to create my vision and still love to see it unfold. But with a much more clearer and „softer“ drive that is more aligned with the nature of everything that is.
In the forum I finally concluded : „… it seems now that drive and awakening are two completely different topics, as long as you don’t seek yourself through the drive. But if I’m aware of my true essence, I am just that. The drive to create and to enjoy this, to put my full heart into it and give my all to what I envision has nothing to do with it, as long as I am aware that I don’t find myself in it. But I can stretch myself, enrich my experience, have excitement and great social moments.“
So, there is really no debate between mind and spirit.
The level of awareness seems to be the most important thing to raise and to maintain. Everything becomes much more clearer then. I see it as the mind is the tool we can use. And we can use it to the max! Improve it, train it, learn and apply. But what is using it, is the spirit. The Spirit is the master of the mind. Not the other way around, which would lead to egoic and unconscious behavior.
So most of what Eckhart Tolle is teaching is to raise the level of awareness and to get experiential knowledge of the present moment (the Now). While also spiritually influenced, Tony Robbins is teaching how to use the mind (and the body) to the maximum degree. Both mind and spirit, or if we include the body all three have their place. The important part is who is influencing who. While „Mind over Matter“ is the expression of mind is the master of the body, I say that spirit is the master over the mind – at least this is where humans are evolving to.
The nearly forced awakening experience Jill Bolt Taylor had in her stroke of insight also suggests, that the spiritual state in the Now (of which Eckhart Tolle speaks) is located in the right, while the logical and thinking mind is located in the left hemisphere of the brain. Meditation programs such as Holosync by Centerpointe’s Bill Harris are aiming at improving the communication between both hemispheres .
How to create harmony between mind and spirit
Genpo Roshi has developed an interesting way to integrate all parts of the human being to the finally „Integrated free functioning human being“. This slightly over-complicated term means nothing else than bringing mind and spirit together. He called it the human being, where the „human side“ is the everyday mind and the „being side“ is the Power of Now , the spirit.
The following triangle illustrates this:
This really seems to be the ultimate goal right now, at least for me. Being aware and using the mind as a tool, and that in the best way possible. Seeing it this way, where is the debate between Tony and Eckhart now? :)
I think this is what Tony Robins and Echart Tolle are trying to describe (an extract from my new Book)
First let me tell very shortly about the
Law of Opposites
The law of opposites state that there are two sides to everything, a positive and a negative. If there is an up there must be a down, if there is an inside there must be an outside, you cannot have one without the other, just like a magnet, you cannot have the north pole without the south pole. The fact that you cannot have one without the other implies that they must be and are complimentary and not good or bad but simply positive and negative. Meaning to have an electric light burning, you need both sides, the positive and the negative, to have a full understanding or synthesis you need to observe both sides, see the big picture.
Ego Mind vs. Authentic Mind
The ego-mind, because of its passion to avoid certain things (usually negatives) or seek other things (usually positives) will desire to have just one side of the opposites, which we now know cannot occur. This is the major cause of the ego-mind to peep at the world through a keyhole but when you transcend this nature of the ego-mind you move into the authentic-self-mind or transcendent mind. Transcending meaning, to have synthesis, a mixture or to ‘see’ both sides, positive and negative, that which ego is avoiding and that which ego is seeking at the same time, or be in synchronicity with both sides without reacting. The key is not to react to but to just ‘see’ both sides or have synchronicity with both sides.
The transcended or authentic-mind is the true spiritual mind that can ‘see’ the big picture or is that which have a vast awareness or even consciousness beyond that of the physical realm because it is directly related to and connected to the Universal Creative mind which most people would prefer to call God. The transcended mind or authentic-self-mind is accessible and we are going to work with this aspect in what we are going to call communicating with the authentic-self.
The authentic-self is accessible but it only occurs when your mind has synthesis and synchronicity of complimentary opposites at the same moment. What does this mouth full of words mean? It means this, when people events or situations occupy space and time in your mind because of your observation, you may react with resentment (avoid) or infatuation (obsession to keep or have) in other words you may be attracted to, or you may be repelled from those things, people, events or situations.
When you are in a reaction state of passionately seeking certain events, situations, people and things, your brain will activate dopamine, oxytocin and encephalon. Dopamine is an addictive compound, oxytocin is bonding compound and encephalon is a pleasure compound. When this occurs those situations, events, people and things will occupy space and time in your mind and your perception of those things are in control and running you, thus you become hooked and they will have power over you. The bonding compound oxytocin will cause a feeling of bondage with that which has your attention, encephalon will cause a sensation of satisfaction and happiness and the dopamine will eventually cause an unconscious addition to the first two feelings.
Because those things cause these feelings at a mostly unconscious level, it will now have power over you without you realising it. You will minimise yourself and you will be willing to sacrifice your highest values and beliefs in order to be with or have those situations, events, people and things because at an unconscious level, you fear the loss of the dopamine. In effect, you are no longer you and will stop to do the things of highest value and you will start to do things to fit in with or have those things, which is now running you, until you build enough resentment to get your life back.
Now while in this state of you not being you and something negative or unpleasant happens, you may become resentful and then the brain will activate cortisol, norepinephrine and substance P and now the unpleasant situations, events, people and things occupy space and time in your mind. What happened is you flipped from ‘seeing’ one side of the magnet to seeing the other side of the magnet so to speak.
Cortisol is a stress hormone, substance P is a neuropeptide related to pain and norepinephrine affects parts of the brain, such as the amygdala, where attention and responses are controlled. Along with epinephrine, norepinephrine also underlies the fear based fight-or-flight response, directly increasing heart rate, triggering the release of glucose from energy stores, and increasing blood flow to skeletal muscle and increases the posterior brain’s oxygen supply. In essence norepinephrine gets the motor functions ready for the fight-or-flight fear based response.
You now display anger or resentment and this is when you are reacting with the immanent or ego-mind and like an animal passionately trying to avoid or seek things, you become like an uncontrollable animal reacting and not even aware of what you are doing. In other words, you are attracted or repelled from something and because you only ‘see’ one side of the magnet, positive without negative or negative without positive, you react from the ego-mind.
Now when you ask the right questions you free yourself form emotional swings and stabilise yourself in direction of your true purpose causing you to build momentum taking you forward and toward you true purpose and not build gravity which will hold you back. Therefore, the quality of your life space is equal to the quality of the questions you ask which is in fact the same questions your intuition is constantly prompting but we don’t always pay attention. If you now introduce a new set of questions or re-evaluate your highest values and beliefs, your belief system and ask what is it in this person, for instance, that I am infatuated or obsessed with and identify what it is you admire or resent. Like a certain behaviour such as being judgemental for instance and then ask yourself where or when do I do that, which I resent or admire of that person. Keep asking yourself when and where do I do that? Soon you will realise you are that person’s equal because you do it (judge) as much as you see it (judging) in the other person. Meaning the other person is just a mirror reflection of something about yourself. Thus the seer is the seen and the seen is the same and then you can have perfect reflection of awareness to see that you are the same or their equal.
If you now look and study at what is the down or up side of that behaviour you break the dopamine fix and stop the obsession because everything has two sides. You may be attracted to someone because he or she is beautiful or a person may repel you because he or she is judgemental. Discovering the up or down side you calm the obsession of either feeling attracted to a person, thing or situation or by being repelled by it, you find the balance between the repulsion (negative) and the attraction (positive). The moment you have this balance and you have perfect reflective awareness by knowing that you also own that trait (being judgemental for instance) one hundred percent, you will see the benefit to you of knowing both sides and then the things you were obsessed with or infatuated by no longer run you, you run you!
No trait is good or bad, there is always two sides to it, traits are not good or bad but only positive or negative and until you choose it to be good or bad because your thinking makes it so thus, you can make a mountain out of a mole hill or a mole hill out of a mountian. In the process of finding the blessing side (positive side of the negative or negative side of the positive side) you have now freed yourself from the emotions of the ego-mind unto the emotion of calmness of your authentic-self. Then the moment you find equilibrium or synchronicity between the two opposites and see the balance, then nothing on the outside runs you. This is when your inner voice guides you and this is what your intuition is prompting you to do, to access your authentic-self because it knows best how to guide you and what is the best for you at any given moment.
Hello Myrko!
Great post – I’d love to attend a discussion featuring Tolle and Robbins +_+
Vlad, thanks for your thoughtful comment. Your first two points are agreeable and that’s what Spirutuality is about. You don’t have to be religious in any way to be spiritual and have spiritual experiences.
I don’t see your point in 3. in context with Eckhart Tolle or even Tony Robbins. It is legit to get value (money) in exchange for value (that is what money is made for) and I don’t have any problem with it. I don’t see it as the main driving force in any of the works of both. As a general message to question and think yourself and not to blindly belief in any teacher, it makes sense though.
Regarding 4/5: I see a challenge for everybody who is open enough to really get in contact with spiritual awakening. As we discussed several times, this is all about direct experience in the moment and not primarely matter of belief of thought. A danger is to lose yourself in the Now and neglect your own demands, desires and responsibilities. Ariel also wrote a nice article about this here http://www.youaretrulyloved.com/enlightenment/hiding-in-the-absolute/ To me the challenge is to find the BALANCE between both.
That balance is what the article is all about. In the last 6 month I learned from experience what works and what does not. And my environment reflected back to me what does not work, which was hiding in the absolute. So judging by results (personal unhappiness) I changed to a more stable and balanced approach between Personal Power and Power of Now.
How easily we fall prey to sophistries. Eckhart Tolle, I shall admit, fascinated me at first. However, after further delving into his philosophy, I came to reject it as false, and at most, only tailored to himself and a particular set of individuals such as himself. I am an Atheist, at most, you might consider me an ex-Christian, but since I stared looking into the nature of reality, I realized a few simple things.
1} Any „religion“ or philosophy that doesn’t come from the self, isn’t meaningful, especially if it asks blind obedience, or a „look“ into its illogical philosophical doctrines.
2} Always question conformity and unfounded cultural belifes, no proof most often equals no truth.
3} A wolf smiles broadly, yet looks out for fresh flesh to tear. Authors of altruisms are oftentimes driven by greed and a need to implement a stuffing of their pockets.
3}Embrace the here, reject the „what if“ be glad for friends, family and good people. Show them respect and treasure them.
4} Any invitation to join in acts of carelessness and self-neglect, such as ignoring daily chores, ignoring loved ones all for a „higher, unseen purpose“ are dangerous ! The people promulgating these lies do not care about your wellbeing. This includes everybody, Eckhart Toll{to a way lesser extent}, Jesus, Mohammed, The Buddha {to a lesser extent}all the prophets of the past and present.
5} If we live life on our own terms, doing that which we desire, unbound by false beliefs. That, that is true enlightenment, that is true Charity, that is the true meaning of „Samsara“. Personal rebirth through logic and caring for the people of the earth, especially your own family and friends. This extends to the use of any violence, which should ONLY be used as a means of self-defense, but should ALWAYS be used to defend oneself, for NOBODY deserves to be a victim of anybody else.
Lastly, and most importantly, look to all philosophies, yet DO NOT embrace any of them without logical study. Sadly, most of my friends tend towards Eastern thought, and find themselves inclined to „convert“ me to one manner of thought or another. No, I will NOT convert to your way of thinking. Not upon threat or false-intentioned and dilusioned coersion, for that is the way to your own demise, and a paradoxically ironic soul-prison!
Myrko, I think everything truly meaningful flows effortlessly out of consciousness: balance, intuition, creativity, ideas, actions, gratitude, love. In my experience using the mind and will power to achieve any of these is very hollow and often leads to frustration and confusion pulling us even further away from vital consciousness.
Nature doesn’t try to create balance, it just does… perfectly. The mind cant even come close to that.
Chris, yes I agree. Could you say that in consciousness mind just happens, but nothing more or less!? For me this is the essence of the spirit (consciousness) being the master.
Myrko,
Where there is no thought there is no debate…no opposites.
I feel there is a danger in mentally striving for balance as it brings thought back into the equation. I imagine that with consciousness, balance will happen naturally and perfectly.
I will say that I have been using some of Anthony Robbin’s NLP techniques to help me to be more wired for consciousness… EVERYTHING else I am leaving to consciousness.
Chris, „consciousness will take care of everything else“ seems very good. I have to say the more I dive into it – be conscious – the more clarity comes. The imbalance may arise because someone takes distance to the things of the world. But it seems like if you avoid this (trap?), you can just be very effective using the mind from consciousness. Then I think my finale statement that there is no real debate seems to be also to the point.
I have tried to find this balance and I ended up falling short. I, like most, am very good at the goal oriented left side. The right side is where I, like most people, fall short. At least in the beginning worrying about the left side is like worrying if one is getting enough sodium in their diet…more than likely, that will take care of itself.
I find that Roshi’s search for balance distracts most people from what they are truly lacking, consciousness. I will go as far to say that if you are conscious, consciousness will take care of everything else; everything will just start to flow..inside and out!
If I get to the point where I find myself abandoning society and just sitting on a park bench because I am lost in the right side, I going straight to Roshi. Until then, it’s just another thought requiring distraction from what I and most people are lacking… keeping attention away from thought!
Simple
Anthony Robbins & all = Mind
Eckhart Tolle = No Mind (i.e. free from mind)
Anthony Robbins & all r talkin about sumthing temporary & r still struck in the mind. they r improving the mind, but r not abel to go beyond it.
& bout Eckhart msg, u compare it wit birth, life & death. Hes talkin bout eternal peace. which lies beyond mind.
Great, thanks Ariel for the details. So you also seem to express that we can use the mind as the tool to it’s best capabilities. If we don’t loose ourselves in it by creating identities or just strong attachements. The overarching awareness or spirit as the guide is the key.
Myrko’s last blog post: 10 Inspirational Quotes by The Buddha
Hey Myrko,
Thanks for bringing this up. This topic is something that I’ve been grappling with lately so allow me to share my current understandings… which expand and evolve literally daily. =)
The key key key thing is realization of the Self, who you truly are. Not just an intellectual term like „I am spirit“ or „I am the infinite awesomeness that is God“ but I mean an actual AWAKENING to the direct realization of this. In my experience, this arises when we starts seeing through the utter lack of reality that is created in the mind, including all beliefs. So at first, it seems that even our „mental power“ to create through intention and law of attraction is subverted.
Awakening leads to a sense of wholeness, the experience of who we actually are. We are not just a mind and body bouncing around in this world. The higher part of ourselves is the guidance system, the intuition, the higher self. It is literally US, a part of us that extends to see a better vantage point, almost like a periscope to see things from a better and clearer perspective. We feel the results of this viewpoint through our intuition and our sense of excitement. The more excitement we feel towards a particular activity, the more in alignment that activity is with our true nature.
So, we wind up guiding ourselves from our higher self. (There is only One of us, really.) It is by surrendering to life and letting go of attachments and mental beliefs of limitation that we become free to be, do, or have anything, to experience anything imaginable.
So we see through the illusion of form and then we guide ourselves through it, using excitement, using our imaginations to visualize and experience (through all our senses) ahead of „time“ what we want, thereby producing the physical manifestation of that reality. The imagination is just as much a dream world as physical reality, but one tends to preceed the other.
We see the ultimate reality of Oneness, yet nevertheless allow ourselves to use the tool called the mind to visualize and thus ignite the process of creation in physical manifestation, without ever buying into any relative reality as if it was literally THE Absolute Truth.
„Be in this world, but not of it“ as the saying goes.
Ariel – We Are All One’s last blog post: Realizations from Awakening, Part 1
Hi MonkMojo, thanks for commenting. Although I don’t have the time I would love to put in the blog, it’s still so much fun :)
So I wonder … What Would MonkMojo Do Differently? ;) I like that kind of humor!
Myrko,
Thank you for the kind mention. I have been slowly but surely exploring your blog. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas. You also link out to some great stuff, like the Genpo Roshi podcast and that interview with Tony.
Keep up the great work,
MoMo
MonkMojo’s last blog post: A Holy Grail for the People
Hi Dr. KC again :) Thank you. Of course we highlight Tony and Eckhart because say paint such a clear picture of what they are teaching. But it is in everyone.
An interesting thing is that Eckhart always points out, also in his latest book A New Earth, that the mind left to itself without any guidance by spirit creates the „problems“ in the world. From my point of view, it loses the broader perspective and it takes the perspective of a seperate being, creating ignorance. If you feel oneness and love for everything that is, just even for a view moments, this perspective can shift from seperate to one with all others. Imagine how this would work on the conflicts, especially the so called „religious conflicts“, when everyone accepts that ultimately we are one.
So I believe in the spirit being the master, then using the mind and the body the best way possible.
Btw. can you link the article you mentioned about balance? Thank you.
By the way, there is an interesting interview of Anthony Robbins on the „What is Enlightenment“ Magazine:
AMAZING article! In fact, I love your entire blog. I’m a true fan!
Finding balance and harmony between mind and spirit is key and so difficult for so many. It is similar to finding balance between mind/body as they are all innately connected. (I discuss this in an article that I wrote in my blog at http://www.DOCintheBiz.com.)
The debate will go on endlessly between the beliefs of Eckhart Tolle and Tony Robbins and I truly love how you discuss how you use both philosophies in your life. (Additionally, I love both philosophies!) I can relate completely as I attempt daily to think in the ways you discuss here to reach my every short and long term goal. I think the bottom line is that finding a way to balance what both say and mesh them together will aid in the goal to reach self actualization.
It’s all relative and individual depending on one’s unique personality and life’s purpose.
Thank you for writing another great article that really makes one think. And thank you for your presence on GLCzone.com.
Doc KC
It seems to me that spirit has to be the master to the mind. If that is the case, then „the mind is a wonderful tool“, as Eckhart Tolle states. Then you visualize and focus on what the soul sings.
If I am in the Now it seems to me, that spontaneous right action is happening from me. The mind is used, but as a servant not as a master. The question seems to be, how we stay aware enough to not let the mind take control!?
From my perspective the ‚Mind-based Power‘ version is hardly worthy of the name ’spirituality‘. Actually – the word ‚power‘ doesn’t resonate with my path at all – but still I’m closer to Eckhart Tolle on this one.
I even think the two don’t balance – they interfere with each other (if taken seriously enough). If I let my ambitions rule me – how can I be open to ‚the other‘?